Are Kobe And Bruce Bowen Trying To Hurt People?

by Brett Edwards

Alternate title: "Re-thinking Bruce Bowen." It's no secret that the founders of this site fucking hate are not fans of the San Antonio Spurs. Their flopping Euros and boring style of play just don't do it for us. We especially can't stand Bruce Bowen, who in the past we've considered to be an intentionally dirty player. After Kobe's second suspension for catching someone with a stray elbow in less than six weeks, I found myself comparing Kobe's situation to that of Bowen and his tactic of undercutting players as they shoot jumpers. Once I thought about it, maybe (JUST maybe) Bowen wasn't being dirty after all.

Let's look at Kobe's actions first. He clearly is exaggerating his follow through on jumpers in late game situations, presumably to try to increase his chances of drawing a foul. The problem is, Kobe ends up elbowing people in the nose or smacking them upside the head. So while I don't think he's trying to hurt anyone, (and both Ginobili and Jaric agree with me), this is clearly not something that the league can tolerate, and he needs to be suspended if it continues. Here's video of his most recent infraction.

Now let's discuss Bruce Bowen. Craig did an excellent job breaking down Bowen's dirty tactics, and at the time I was more than willing to pile on and agree that Bowen was trying to injure people. But looking at this in the context of what Kobe is being suspended for, now I'm not so sure. Bowen's actions are definitely intentional, but I think now that he was just trying to intimidate on defense, and not actually attempting to end people's careers. Hell, anyone who has this much fun line dancing can't be all that vicious, can he? Here's video of Bowen's undercutting technique as a point of reference.

Craig and I discussed this today, and here's what he had to say on the Bowen/Kobe comparison:

I think both are doing it intentionally. I've seen enough of Kobe to know that he does a few things of the sort when BS players are crowding him (most superstars get pissed when D-level players crowd them, like "the balls of this guy to guard me!") This explains Kobe's attitude towards Raja Bell.

We know Bowen does it intentionally for the sole reason that it intimidates the opposing shooter. Knowing that Bowen will undercut you, you may think twice when pulling up in front of him. Plus, Bowen gets away with it because the media loves his rags to riches story and it's easy to write about the hard working role player who becomes All Defense.

Point well taken. But as I mentioned over at the FanHouse, the league told Bowen to stop, and he seems to have done so. With two suspensions in less than two months, the league is saying the same thing to Kobe. Based on his response, it doesn't seem like he's listening.

Comments

[geebs]

I'm gonna have to side w/ Craig on this one. I think they are both doing it intentionally, and both are what I would like to call "bitchmade" for doing so. Not one player in the L is a saint on the court, everybody's got little tricks here and there. However, the type of stuff that can seriously injure another player is absolutely uncalled for.

[jeff]

kobe = intentional. bowen = not. you can clearly see bowen is concerned with blocking a shot over injuring the player. his hustling style of D just happens to result in feet coming in contact. the spurs have no reason to intimidate a knicks player. thats an easy win for them.

[Key]

Bruce Bowen is not a dirty player - Craig's previous comments dramatically overstate the case. BB is a great defender, and offensive players don't like for opponents to play aggressive defense on them. This season Bruce will finally get the Defensive Player of the Year award that he's deserved in the past.

Btw, who are the "flopping Euros" on the Spurs? And I don't know how you can watch the Spurs and consider them boring [especially the way they've played during their current 11-game winning streak]. With all due respect to the Mavs, it's quite probable that the "boring Spurs" are going to win another championship this year.

[Brett]

"who are the flopping Euros on the Spurs?"

You're kidding, right? Ever hear of Manu Ginobili? Dude is on his back more than Paris Hilton.

[Craig]

Flopping Euros? Tony Longoria, Beno Udrih, Francisco Elson... need I say anymore?

And to beat all Spurs fans to the punch, we already know that Gynobili is not from Europe, but his flopping is very European.

[dave]

hate to say i told you so, but i came to the same conclusion months ago when you were both accusing bowen of being a dirty player. what happened? now that craig's man-crush kobe bryant is flinging his arms around like he has the palsy you realize you can't have your cake and eat it too.
i'm looking forward to a suns/lakers re-match in the playoffs. maybe raja bell will piledrive kobe this year.
by the way, flopping is not new or strictly done europeons. it's been around for awhile. have you ever heard of larry bird? "flopping" is a defensive technique that my jr. high basketball coach taught me. it's been part of the game for a long time.

[Key]

Craig: You're showing your true colors by claiming that all of those guys are floppers. The Spurs play the best team defense in the NBA. And Manu is clearly one of the best [and most unique] players in the league - who would not want him on their team?

Btw, despite the difference in the overall talent level that still exists between the NBA and European basketball, the NBA can certainly learn some things [in terms of work ethic, execution, team play] from the Europeans. Many Europeans think that the NBA is boring.

[McCann, Larry]

Anyone who thinks Kobe is intentionally doing it, is an absolute imbecile.

Comparing Bowen to Kobe is hilarious.

[McCann, Larry]

Jeff has never played a second of basketball, thus he should keep his ignorant comments to himself.

Bowen is dirty and the step under is intentional.

[jeff]

larry, why would you say something like that when you have no clue who i am or what experience i have? that defines ignorance, don't you think?

[Travis]

Manu Ginobili is not a Euro....

never heard of tony parker or fransisco elson flopping more than the average nba player does.

[Jason]

yeah Manu is such a flopper that he's recorded HALF the offensive fouls drawn as Raja Bell.

If you want to see flops, nothing better than to watch the Suns - Bell, Nash, Barbosa, Kurt Thomas, all are master floppers. Suns are #1 in the league at drawing offensive fouls, while Spurs are middle of the road.

[John R.]

Add Korver to the list.

Both Kobe and Bowen are doing it on purpose. The different is Bowen was smart enough to stop once the league called him

[The Man In Black]

Bowen has the longest current streak of most games played.
You would think...LARRY, that since he has played this game that long and he is intentionally trying to hurt people that he would have more incidents than just Ray Allen, Vince Carter, & Steve Francis. Why should a bitchass offensive player get to use his elbow tricks and pushoffs, DEFENSE should be able to answer back.
If he faced the best perimeter scorers for at least half of their shots, then you would thing that there would be more players who got their ankles hurt. BUT THERE ISN'T...is there.
What that means is that he is recognized for how hard he plays D and that no offensive player is going to get his points easy like he does against other teams, if he wants those points, he has to earn them.

[Dave]

here's the flopping euro list:

http://www.82games.com/charge0607.htm

Leading 2006-07 NBA Players in drawing Offensive Fouls

Through Feb. 4th
Rank

Team

Player

Off.Fouls
Drawn
1 CLE Varejao 58
2 MIL Bogut 55
3 CHI Nocioni 46
4 DAL Harris 41
5 PHO Bell 41
6 PHO Nash 37
7 IND O'Neal 36
8 HOU Battier 32
9 NJN Collins 28
10 NOK Mason 28
11 GSW Ellis 27
12 GSW Dunleavy 25
13 LAL Parker 25
14 SAC Bibby 25
15 SAC Martin 24

opinions can be wrong if they are based on incorrect facts.

[McCann, Larry]

JEFF-

Because I know for a fact Kobe's were unintentional, and I am positive Bowen's were INTENTIONAL.

There is video proof of Kobe doing the same exact flail and no defender is near to get hit in the face. Phil Jackson is having a staff member compile it and send it to the league office.

I was the first one to start calling Bowen out on the step under years ago. It's a known move in the basketball world used by idiots to injure a guy taking a jumpshot. Bowen knew exactly what he was doing.

[McCann, Larry]

John R is dead wrong, as is Man in Black.

John R- No.

Man in Black- No. He obviously doesn't do it every time he defends a jumper..... I shouldn't have to tell you this. It's a tactic that he employs from time-to-time and I have seen him do it to other players in addition to the ones you listed.

And the main reason he does it, as stated before, is to get into the heads of the guys he is defending, and to make them think when they take a jumper.

[The Man In Black]

If he does it intentionally to get in the heads of other players, then hasn't he already won the mental battle? Because if he did it to injure players, then why aren't there more hurt players?

Answer..the primadonna biatches that whine because they aren't allowed to score their 20+ can't hang with the type of in-your-face D that Bruce employs. So they whine in the media.
Tell them to check the media guide and see 7 years straight ALL-D team member.

This is why I have respect for KB against BB, because Kobe expects Bruce to give him everything and that's why Bruce has respect back.

If ya look in the press, you'll see that Kobe called Bruce after he found out that he was suspended for the flail against Ginobili to get his opinion. I agree that the flail shouldn't be a suspendable offense, a fine would be better, with a larger fine for a second offense, and then finally, a SUSPENSION for a 3rd offense.

[NBARefsSuck]

Maybe we should just trust the refs to make the right call?

Not!

[dave]

who the f... is larry mccann?

[Pimp Dice]

Are Kobe and Bruce Bowen trying to hurt people? No. Are they trying to do everything within their power to win, even if it is bending the rules a bit, why yes... yes they are.

If your as talented and competitive as Bryant is on the offensive side, your going to take your jump shots and do whatever it takes to score (wheather it be going to the free throw line for an even easier two.) And if your name's Bruce Bowen and you have no offensive skills than you have to devote your life to defense and making it hell for the offensive playing taking a shot (wheather it means making him umcomfortable or even possibly injuring him.)

So to sum it up, I doubt these two just want to hurt people for the sake of it, their just trying to win at any means possible.

[Lloyd]

When you guys actually show more than one (two, three, whatever you think is reasonable) video to make your case, then maybe I'll accept it. Until then, these are old and weak arguments, both for Kobe and Bruve.

[John R.]

Does the elbow to Mike Miller's throat count as one?

You can take your pick of Ginobili, Jaric or Korver for two. Kobe is doing it on purpose.

Lloyd, you lose. Good day, sir.

Based on the fact that we are on instance #4, I also think it is only reasonable to conclude he is a racist.

[John R.]

Larry - Dumb

I mean, if NO is the entirety of your rebuttal in the face of substantial video evidence, you shouldn't have bothered.

[Skitdz]

So Kobe is elbowing white people then? Who's next... Brad Miller, Nowitski? Maybe that one guy on Cleveland who comes in when Lebron James is out, He's euro and white like Ginobli.